Have you ever considered a career transition or found yourself at a professional crossroads, unsure when to take the leap towards something new? Join your friend in HR, Jasani Courtney, as we navigate these life-defining moments, outlining clear strategies for those eyeing a future in human resources and offering guidance on when to part ways with your current job. As we walk Tevon, a college senior with logistics savvy, through his entry into the HR world, you'll get a front-row seat to the actionable insights and relatable experiences that can catapult your own career journey. For anyone wrestling with the question of timing their exit from a role, we dive into the critical factors, from personal growth to mental well-being, that signal it's time to move on—wisdom that could spell the difference between stagnation and fulfillment.
The episode continues to dissect the nuanced art of people management, a skill set often overlooked in the promotion of new managers. Listen in as I candidly share lessons from my own climb up the HR ladder, emphasizing the importance of soft skills, proactive learning, and the ability to leverage team strengths. The conversation turns to debunking managerial myths and lays bare the high costs of ineffective leadership, from sunk morale to soaring turnover. With a focus on consistency, fairness, and direct conflict resolution, this episode is a treasure trove of management strategies and insights that will transform not just how you lead, but how you recognize and champion the varying contributions of your team for a truly collaborative and dynamic work environment.
Have you ever considered a career transition or found yourself at a professional crossroads, unsure when to take the leap towards something new? Join your friend in HR, Jasani Courtney, as we navigate these life-defining moments, outlining clear strategies for those eyeing a future in human resources and offering guidance on when to part ways with your current job. As we walk Tevon, a college senior with logistics savvy, through his entry into the HR world, you'll get a front-row seat to the actionable insights and relatable experiences that can catapult your own career journey. For anyone wrestling with the question of timing their exit from a role, we dive into the critical factors, from personal growth to mental well-being, that signal it's time to move on—wisdom that could spell the difference between stagnation and fulfillment.
The episode continues to dissect the nuanced art of people management, a skill set often overlooked in the promotion of new managers. Listen in as I candidly share lessons from my own climb up the HR ladder, emphasizing the importance of soft skills, proactive learning, and the ability to leverage team strengths. The conversation turns to debunking managerial myths and lays bare the high costs of ineffective leadership, from sunk morale to soaring turnover. With a focus on consistency, fairness, and direct conflict resolution, this episode is a treasure trove of management strategies and insights that will transform not just how you lead, but how you recognize and champion the varying contributions of your team for a truly collaborative and dynamic work environment.
Speaker 1:
Welcome everyone to the my Friend in HR podcast, your inside look into the elusive world of human resources and your guide on your journey to career fulfillment. I am your friend and host, jasani Courtney. You know, as we head into the holiday season, I wanted to take a quick moment to say thanks to you, the listeners. I've read your emails and comments and I am overwhelmed by your feedback. A number of you have expressed how these episodes have helped you in your own career journey and I'm glad to hear that most of you find this information helpful. After all, that's why we're here To answer some of these career-based questions today. You have the information you need to make solid, fact-based decisions. Speaking of questions, we've actually received a number of questions in the my Friend in HR inbox and, before we get to our main topic, I wanted to go through and read a few of those questions for you right now.
Speaker 1:
Tevon asks what would you say to someone who wants to transition from one field to the HR field? I am currently a senior in college and study in business. However, I'm 35, with experience in logistics. Would you recommend an internship, or would talent acquisition be an easier segue? After I get my degree, I assume that I could use my experience to work my way in as a type of change agent who has been on the front lines. A lot of podcasts and books base themselves off of the premise that you, either one, have a degree and, as if they're speaking to another HR individual, that doesn't seem to be a lot for those hoping to make it into the initial move. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 1:
Well, tevon, I'll be honest with you. You talk to a lot of HR professionals and most of us would tell you that we did not start things off saying I'm going to be an HR. Many people, especially folks my age, did not start off with just this thriving need to jump into human resources and help people and organizations, something we actually stumbled into. But to get specifically into your question, I started my career off in recruiting. I had the personality, I had the gift of gab. I like to talk. It kind of helped me in terms of helping companies feel their positions.
Speaker 1:
In a lot of cases that is the easier way to get a start into HR. It's hard to jump in as a HR business partner, hr generalist If you don't really have a whole lot of experience, unless they're actually looking for that entry level. But I will tell you, being an HR and getting into the HR field is one of those things where it's hard to get into and have a bit, if you ever want to leave, because it's hard to get out of. But I would honestly say recruiting and it's not to say that recruiting is any easier than being an HR business partner or any other discipline in HR but what it takes to be successful as a recruiter is different than it's more of your own soft skills. It's more of your dynamic and how you can talk to people and convince people of an opportunity, which doesn't necessarily take a lot of technical skill, but you do have to have the savvy to be successful in that role. But I think that might be a great way to jump in there. If you have a bachelor's degree, maybe starting as an HR administrator. I would also say maybe trying to caveat trying to get an internship, if you can, while you're in college. You're 35 years old, so I'm not sure if that's realistic, but if you can get this a little bit of HR experience at that point, that will actually help you. It just really depends on where in HR you're trying to get to, because there's a lot of disciplines within human resources.
Speaker 1:
So thanks for that question, michelle T Ass. She says great podcast. I'm loving having a friend in HR. No thanks, michelle. My question is how do you know when it's time to quit your job? So, michelle, that is a loaded question. I'd probably need to ask you a few more questions about why you're asking yourself that question, um, but I would you know? I would normally start off by saying you know, unless you're not being cultivated or compensated, um, or if it's a question of your health and sanity, you know if you're at a job, if you're not working for yourself, if you were, if you're working at a corporate job, you know you need to be cultivated, you need to be growing, you need to, you need to not be in the same spot this time next year and from a skill set and experience perspective, um and so if you feel like you're being stagnant, you're not growing in that, in that realm, you, that might be a time that you might need to start looking at other opportunities outside your current organization.
Speaker 1:
Compensated and compensated, that's pretty straightforward. You, you want to make sure you're being well compensated for the role you have Now. That's there's being compensated well and there's, you know, kind of being greedy. There's a, you know, none of us would turn down an extra $5,000 if we were offered it in salary. But there's a difference between between being greedy and being paid well, being paid fairly, um, but if you know for a fact that you're being kind of screwed over in terms of compensation and you know folks are kind of getting a getting a bargain for the skills and what you're providing, you know that can also be a consideration. But also just make sure that if you're going to leave a compensation, that's one of your top value proposition, that's one of your top things that you need. You know, depending on where you are, you know, and, but you're getting great experience, you're getting great exposure to senior leaders, you're getting exposure to international assignments. Um, sometimes that's worth a little bit more than compensation at this point in time. But you've got to kind of take a look at where you are and then you know.
Speaker 1:
The last thing I'll say is when it comes down to your mental health and in your own sanities, you know, sometimes some jobs and some companies out there are so freaking toxic that you just you just got to go. You're crying on the way to work, you're this is all you talk about. Um, this is the only thing that's kind of dominating your thoughts and you go to bed and you're having nightmares about going to work and your blood pressure's up. You're taking medication and you know it just gets to a point where the money's just not worth it. Um, if you, if you have a family and you're taking care of your family, you know if, if you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of those who depend on you and no job's worth that. Guys, no job in the world is worth it.
Speaker 1:
Now, the timing, depending on your financial situation, may vary. I understand that everybody can just walk on their job and give a two weeks notice, but it doesn't mean you don't need to start planning things out, and you'd be surprised once you get to a point where you finally just say I'm done and you just say that I am going to move on it. It's amazing the the piece that comes to you, because your brain now knows that it's trauma. This trauma you're going through is eventually going to end. But I want to make sure I'm being very clear. I'm. We're not talking about you having a few bad days or you're getting you're getting into an argument with your supervisor. This is this has been going on for a while. This has been going on for a long period of time and again you're, you're crying on your on your commute and you're just literally not being your best self. If you're, if that's happening, I don't care how much money you make. You need to find an exit, develop an exit strategy at some point. So thanks, michelle and Tavon, for your questions, and if any of you have any other questions you'd like me to answer, feel free to email me at myfriendinhrcom.
Speaker 1:
But let's get to today's actual episode. So most of you can probably tell what the main message is about. It's about how managers just simply need to do better when it comes to how they manage their employees and how they care for most valuable assets. You know companies love to use that slogan over and over again. Before I do get started into this topic, I want to be clear about something Everything that is crappy within your team isn't completely the manager's fault. To be honest, in my 21 years of HR, when we look into issues within teams, it's very rarely completely the fault of the manager or the employee. Usually, the problem is somewhere in the middle. However, we as managers, you do get paid more and have more perks than our frontline employees. So to whom much is given, much is expected. Or to say, in quote one of my favorite Marvel comic books with great power comes great responsibility, you know. But.
Speaker 1:
But as I get into this topic, I want to make sure that you know people understand. Like there's no way I could cover All the ways a manager can do better in just one podcast. There's entire books and series on this topic and you know, honestly, it. Actually, if you're interested in reading a couple of books here, I actually have two suggestions. One would be the five love languages of management, and that's written by Scott Simpson, if you guys know the five love languages, which is more of a personal relationships. It's kind of a similar, similar format. And then second one is one minute manager by Kenneth Blanchard. Both of these are really great books, good reads. I've read them both. But if you want to learn more about being a better manager, these go into a lot more detail than I'm gonna be able to go to in a quick podcast, but I'm gonna try to cover some of the big topics.
Speaker 1:
So the first question I want to address is you know if a manager is so bad, how in the heck did they get promoted in the first freaking place? And I want to start by saying that in a number of situations, managers don't necessarily ask for this, and If it sounds like I'm defending managers, it's because I kind of am, at least for right now. I have seen so many cases where a manager gets promoted by the company not because they were the best person for the job, but it was for some other reasons, such as the individual promoted has been around the longest, so they got the most tenure. Or the previous managers suddenly quit and the company didn't have a succession plan in place, so the company has to scramble to find someone to fill in the gaps. You know, sometimes a company promotes someone simply because they have an awesome technical skill set and the company's only thinking about the work that has to be done or how to maintain client relations, because the clients want to see that technical expertise.
Speaker 1:
Unfortunately, the people management and the impact of the team is not always what is at the top of the priority list. And this isn't the fault, again, of the person who's gotten promoted. It's the fault of senior management, who needs to be thinking about these long-term people needs. You know, what's even worse is that in some of these cases the individual may not even have wanted to manage people. So all those soft skills, those people skills, may not be in their current skill set. To compound the issue, many companies simply don't invest the time to train these individuals to be managers. And oh, do some of these managers need some training. It's almost like some senior leaders think that just because we change the job title of that person in the system, that all of a sudden that person is endowed with managerial expertise, and then we have the audacity to be surprised when these individuals aren't successful and then they crash and burn.
Speaker 1:
If you are a senior manager or an executive that is in charge of decision like these, I implore you to think more about how this individual will impact the overall team. Is that person even equipped to be a manager? Do they have the soft skills and problem resolution skills to manage people? After all, that manager won't be effective if everybody in that team Quits or morale in the employee engagement drops. I know that those other considerations are important, such as managing client relations and having that technical Expertise. They are important. I am just saying that the thought process about whether to promote someone shouldn't stop at client relations or project outputs, and for all that is good in the world, if they aren't equipped to be a manager. Please ensure that you put a plan in place that gets them to train that they need. Do not take an A plus player and put them in a C minus situation. Now that I've said that, let's get back to you managers here.
Speaker 1:
Being an army guy, I have always loved the slogan lead, follow or get the hell out of the way. I believe this might have been a quote from general Patton, but what this phrase is saying is that you have a lot of situations where you need to be productive, and it has a couple of different possibilities. The first of these is that when you have a situation we had to be productive, you can lead people. You have the opportunity to lead, and that's when you take charge and get everybody marching on the same beat to get to the same mission. The second of these is that you can be a follower. So you can either lead or you can be a follower and do with the leader instructs. Follow the lead of someone who has the expertise or who has the charisma to actually rally the troops to get something done, but the phrase is basically saying that both the leader and the follower have important roles to play in this, in this situation. Now, if you're not going to be a leader or a follower, as the phrase says, you just need to get out of the way entirely, because I'll. At that point, you're just a distraction, you're a blocker, you're a hindrance. So you gotta decide are you gonna be a leader, you're gonna be a follower? And I'd like to apply this, you know when, in corporate management as well.
Speaker 1:
I Did start this discussion about talking how sometimes these situations aren't fully on the fault of the manager who was just recently promoted, but what I will say is that once an individual has accepted the offer and you have it decided to take that extra pay and all those extra perks, the first thing as a manager you need to manage is the ownership of the decision that you made, and that decision was to take this position. So many managers have complained about how they haven't been trained to be a manager, or how they inherited a Disfunctional team, or, and while these facts may be true, once you accept the role, you need to accept everything that comes along with it. If you know that you don't have some of the skills you need to properly manage your team, then go get it. Problem resolution, communication skills, presentation, financial and budget planning oh, those are all things that can be trained upon. However, these trainings alone won't make you a managerial expert. What you have to do is you have to take the things you've learned, use it and mold it to your ever-evolving managerial style. Next, remember, managers, you don't have to always be the smartest person in the room. Rely on the expertise of your team. Just like there are things that you're great at, the same goes for your team. It is absolutely ridiculous to think, just because you're a manager, that you're some supreme overlord in every skill and capability in your area of responsibility. Honestly, it is okay to admit that there are things you aren't good at or things that you don't know.
Speaker 1:
Taking myself, for example people who work for me they will tell you quickly that I am not the most detail-oriented person. I am totally that 50,000-foot view individual and at this stage in my career, I have accepted that that aspect will never be one of my strong points. Getting down into the nasty details, my strong points, in my opinion, are people management, building teams, mentoring, collaboration. However, if you put a 1,000-line spreadsheet in front of me and look into my eyes. What you'll probably see is something that looks like the rotating circle on your computer when Windows is about to lock up. So what do I do? I hire people that think differently and are detail-oriented. That not only allows me to focus in the areas that I manage well, it also gives your team members the opportunity to perform well in the areas that they excel in. Now, as a manager, that doesn't mean that I can delegate every task. That requires detailed thinking. There are times where the job simply requires me to do work in less desirable aspects than I would naturally like. But remember you don't have to be knowledgeable about all things.
Speaker 1:
Another area is employee recognition, and before managers start rolling their eyes and saying that, hey, I don't have a budget to do any kind of recognition, remember that while money is always nice, that isn't what your employees are always looking for. It's amazing how a thank you and I appreciate what you're doing can energize an employee. Unfortunately, we as managers don't do this nearly enough. Isn't it crazy how, when someone makes a mistake, the entire company knows about it in less than an hour, but when someone does something well, it doesn't get publicized nearly as fast as something negative. I call this punishing in public while praising in private. It sounds crazy when you say it out loud, doesn't it? However, how many of us are guilty of marching straight to an employee's cubicle that is surrounded by their teammates? Chew them out for something they did wrong, but when they do something well, we'll call them to our offices, we'll close the door and congratulate them on bringing a project in early. This is literally the opposite of what we should do as managers. Now, one word of caution. Not every team member will like public recognition, so it's really important to know who on your team appreciates what types of praise.
Speaker 1:
The next area I want to discuss is the need for managers to be consistent and fair, and I want to start with the consistency part first. No one and I mean no one likes to deal with a manager who is up one day and then down the next. One day they are verbally destroying you, and the next day they're trying to chat with you at the coffee machine. One minute they're trying to be everyone's friend. The next they want to be everyone's dictator. Now, I'm not saying that you need to be everyone's friend Actually, that's never really a good idea, but you do need to decide what your managerial style is.
Speaker 1:
Are you more of a red energy, straight to the facts and results oriented type of leader, or are you more of a green energy that is more relatable and people oriented type of leader? Regardless of where you land, just be authentic and consistent. Trust me, you don't have to be Mr or Mrs Nice person. Honestly, some of your employees might appreciate the more straightforward style more. Don't be all over the place. That only confuses your team and it's everyone walking on eggshells because they don't know which manager is showing up that day. It's funny. I know a lot of teams that talk about their managers demeanor through discussing the weather. Someone will ask what is the weather today? Someone will reply oh, it's pretty bad and stormy, meaning that the manager is having a rampage that day. The other thing that goes hand in hand with being consistent is being fair. Now to those listeners who are just looking to stick it to their boss. Fair does not mean you always get what you want or that you are consulted on every department decision. That means that the policies and rules are administered in a fair and consistent way.
Speaker 1:
Managers do not apply a different set of rules or standards to employees. For example, let's say you have an account manager that always exceeds their numbers. You overlook them being late to work repeatedly because, in your mind, they are doing their job, and then some. However, if a less productive employee does the exact same thing, they get written up, or even worse. You don't want to have two sets of rules in your department, because all that does is increase divisiveness and resentment. Reward for the person or persons that are getting the better treatment and resentment for you as the manager for doing it. Yes, you should absolutely reward your top performers so that the rest of your team knows what good looks like, but you don't want to do it to such a degree that there are literally two different sets of rules for different people. When you reward, be clear about why that person is being rewarded. This helps combat the mentality that you are showing favoritism.
Speaker 1:
Another topic for managers is to grow a freaking spine and deal with problems. One of the worst things a manager can do is know that there's a problem on their team and just hopes that it goes away on its own. I want to start by saying that that almost never happens. In fact, it's almost like a cancer, and the opposite happens the more you ignore it and leave it untreated, the worse the problem becomes. I get it.
Speaker 1:
Managers Dealing with conflict or team issues suck, and it's difficult. In fact, most people actively avoid conflict in their personal lives, so it's no wonder that we do it in our professional lives as well. But if you don't deal with team issues quickly, it will come back like a Hydra and be 10 times more difficult down the road. This is especially true when it comes to team conflict. There is nothing wrong with allowing your team to try and come to a resolution on their own if they have the ability to do so. After all, you are dealing with adults, right? Well, I can tell you as an HR person, with 100% of surety that adults don't always act like adults, and if a problem doesn't get resolved quickly, you will need to step in Now.
Speaker 1:
Allowing the team first dibs to solve their own problems is okay when it comes to issues like the direction or challenges on a project. However, when it comes to issues like policy interpretation, discipline or just bad behavior, those issues fall squarely on your shoulder as the manager. This isn't the Lord of the Flies, where you just let natural selection or survivalist fittest determine who is right. You are responsible for the engagement and the well-being of your team, not your boss, not HR. However, you should absolutely bring in HR if you're having any kind of disciplinary or behavioral issues on your team. Remember, although, as a manager, you need to deal with these issues, that doesn't mean you have to deal with them on your own. You were not hired or promoted to be an employee or labor relations expert. However, you were put in that position to lead your team and that means finding solutions for any that arise. That means getting advice from your manager or HR, depending on the situation.
Speaker 1:
Finally, I do want to talk a little bit about managers talking to their people, and I know this sounds simple, it sounds straightforward, but this applies more to executives than front-line supervisors. Far too often, executives only talk to other executives. I honestly think that this is one of the biggest failings of executives these days. If you were a director hire, I would ask when was the last time you had a quick cup of coffee with front-line employees? I get it, you're busy and you are in strategic meetings. However, if you're only getting information about your organization from other executives or senior leaders, trust me when I say you're only getting half the story.
Speaker 1:
It's funny that in numerous employee surveys, when it comes to questions about job enjoyment, responses seem to be much more positive from executives than those responses from front-line employees. I wonder why the heck that is. Is it truly because executives are much more positive and optimistic than employees? Let me be the first to say no, that is absolutely not it. It's because of the perspective Perspective of senior executives tend to be much more different than other employees. Now, that isn't to say that one perspective is more important than the other. Both have validity and to get a good handle on the state of affairs for your organization, you need to hear from both sides.
Speaker 1:
In addition to the benefit of hearing different perspectives, you would also be surprised that when you come out of your ivory tower and just have a chat with your employees every now and then, that can have a positive impact on your teams. Don't underestimate the power of having a few sips of coffee with a few employees in the morning for just five minutes. While you'll probably forget that encounter by your 9AM meeting, that employee will be telling their coworkers and their partner about that encounter all day. However, you will be surprised the number of employees who say they have never met their VP. I know that, depending on the size and the geography of your team and organization, it may not be realistic to have discussions with every employee, but you would be surprised the impact of having just a few of these discussions a month with your employees. Alright, my friends, that's going to do it for us for this month. I could be here for several hours and not cover everything, but I hope this episode was able to provide managers with at least a couple of ideas on how to level up their managerial gain.
Speaker 1:
Remember, managers, you accepted this role and the rewards, so you need to own the role as well as your shortcomings. Remember be consistent. Don't have your employees guessing about which version of their manager will be showing up today. Reward in public and punish in private. Be fair on how you apply rules and policies. Remember that you don't always have to be the smartest person in the room. And while you're being strategic, don't forget to stay connected with those people that will help your organization be successful, and those are always people with VP titles. Talk to your employees.
Speaker 1:
Hey, I hope everyone's getting ready to enjoy the holiday season, whether you plan to travel and go see family and friends, or you're staying home, like me, just to reconnect with loved ones and recharge. Enjoy your time off, because you deserve it. If you want to ask me a question, you can reach me at myfriendandhr at gmailcom. You can also follow my exploits on Instagram at myfriend underscore hr, and you can also follow me on LinkedIn under just Sonny Courtney. And you know. If you're a fellow nerd and you want to hear me and my friends ramble about 80s movies, video games and the new shows we're watching, check out the Middle Age Nerds podcast and remember, my friends, that your job is meant to support your life. Your life is not meant to support your job. Happy holidays and until next time, my friends.